RWD vs AWD for FUN...?

"PlayerWAN" (PlayerWAN) 11/05/2013 at 18:43 • Filed to: ask oppo

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Today marks two weeks since my acquisition of a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , and I thought I'd share a few things that have been in my mind as of late, particularly since I sold the rescued Miata. As !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , a few days ago I took the subie for a nice spirited driving session down some paved twisty back roads mixed with some gravel areas, and it was simply put awesome. But today... today I came home with mixed feelings. Let me elaborate...

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Today it rained (a lot), and on my way back from work I was thinking "hey, let's have a little fun shall we?" , so I took the long way home expecting to push the car a bit further towards its limits... and what do I find? I can't break it loose. (at least not within a safe threshold of speed), so that got me thinking... In the Miata, I could induce oversteer during rainy days by just lightly feathering the throttle. I wouldn't even need to break the speed limit. I understand AWD is much more capable in harsh conditions (dirt, rain, snow), but is it more fun ? I am sadly starting to doubt it.

Perhaps there's a different approach. I remember when I first bought a FWD car I had to use the brakes on turn in so I could get the car to stop plowing, and the few times I got the car to break the back end loose were immensely fun, so maybe AWD requires it's own approach altogether... Anyone have any first hand experience with it? How do I make AWD more fun, short of hunting for dirt roads or waiting for snow?

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 18:47

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Rain/snow/gravel/dirt: AWD can be more fun I suppose. It's definitely easier to control.

RWD is pretty much always fun. This is all opinion.

ddavidn > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 18:49

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1. Find dirt roads

2. Wait for snow

Someone had to be the class clown. But really, if you offset the balance, possibly with brakes, you should be able to find a point at which it breaks loose.

Takuro Spirit > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 18:51

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Mount up 4 donut spares.

Decay buys too many beaters > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 18:53

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I've found that it pretty hard to hoon an AWD car. I can induce oversteer in my 86 pretty much at will without really stressing the car. In a WRX, I needed to kick the clutch and apply a quick jab of the e-brake to unsettle it into a slide.

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 18:54

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AWD is a different kind of fun than RWD thats for sure. The limits are pretty high on tarmac even in the wet, so you have to really push it to get it to break loose, unless you use the e-brake but its not so good on the drive-train.

Collin > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 18:57

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If it makes you feel any better, I have a hard time inducing oversteer in my E39 without acting like a complete idiot or driving on a dirt road (which I'm afraid to do due to the whole "BMWs being expensive to repair" sort of thing).

What you need to do is take a page out of Top Gear's playbook and put donuts on all four corners of your WRX. Then when you go for a little twisty adventure, you can four wheel drift any time you want.

PlayerWAN > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ 11/05/2013 at 18:58

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Yeah, especially with Subaru's famed ''gearboxes made of glass"

PlayerWAN > Takuro Spirit 11/05/2013 at 18:58

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like our good friends Chris Harris?:

George McNally > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 19:00

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We have a 2008 Outback and I have a set of Blizzacks mounted.

In the snow, going around a bend, I can break the rear loose in 2nd gear by giving the throttle a good jab. Our car has the limited slip rear diff, so once you get the tail out (in snow) it's really easy to modulate the position of the car with the throttle pedal.

In dry weather or rain, the car will push up to the point where it will go into very sudden oversteer. I don't do that very often because it's a station wagon that sits up fairly high with what feels like a high center of gravity and frankly-it scares the shit out of me going fast enough to get it to oversteer on dry pavement.

PlayerWAN > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig 11/05/2013 at 19:04

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That's the thing though, making it easier is not always making it more fun . for reference take the Nissan GTR. It's absurdly competent in most aspects, but by most accounts, it feels dry. Like the car is doing it all for you while you're just pointing the wheels where you want to go. I find that feeling all too familiar now.

I personally loved going in and out of a slide on gravel in the Miata. It was a challenge that made me grin every time I did it right.

Decay buys too many beaters > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 19:05

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I was under the impression that the infamous "glass transmissions" were in 2002 and early 2003 WRXs

PlayerWAN > Collin 11/05/2013 at 19:08

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Top gear did it? I was under the impression that it was /Drive. Do you have a link to top gear's experience? Here's Chris Harris trying it.

deadpedal > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 19:12

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Give it some time. Get to know each other.

I've had all manner of setups. I have a WRX in the fleet currently. Once you know it, it's nearly the best all road everyday car I've had. It let's you have all of the fun. FWD fun, RWD fun, and AWD fun. That's how I feel at least. Yeah, it's a bit harder to get loose...but it's a LOT easier to keep loose...and in control.

I live somewhere snowy, and dirt roady, so I get lots of low traction fun. But I'd say if you are really jonesing for some slip angle, drop a gear and start sawing the wheel around a bit.

I remember when I got my first one, I read somewhere..."if you can't drive this car fast, you can't drive fast." The takeaway on that is that it's forgiving and will save you when you cross the line. Just creep up to the line gradually. These cars are such fun. Enjoy.

Squid > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 19:12

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I haven't owned an AWD car yet, but the driving dynamics are going to be totally different than RWD. You will have higher traction limits which will also alter the technique needed to induce a slide. You also need much more commitment than in a RWD car. I do suppose that using weight transfer to induce oversteer is possible but at that point in time you will be unsettling the vehicle drastically. I would just spend time getting used to how the WRX handles its weight and learn how to use that to your advantage. From what I remember of WRX's is that they have massive amounts of body roll and a somewhat soft suspension which should play into the technique of weight transfer being key to getting the behavior you want out of the car.

Collin > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 19:14

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You're right. I guess I just naturally assume that Top Gear does all the crazy car things.

HammerheadFistpunch > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 19:17

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Something I would recommend is getting anti-lift geometry bushings . The forester has this and anti-dive because of they don't want the car to dive under braking with a load, The net effect is that lift off oversteer is surprisingly easy, especially in concert with new roll bars. A few tweaks here and there and the impreza chassis can be lots of fun.

Casper > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 19:19

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AWD is more fun in snow and sometimes on gravel. RWD is generally more fun everywhere else. I even have great fun in some old beater RWDs on gravel just because of how easy you can induce oversteer without having to do a hard flick.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 19:20

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I am in 100% agreement with you. Other people's definition of fun may be different. For me, a car that you can just point and hit the gas and the AWD sorts it all out for you isn't that much fun. For some people it is. I much MUCH prefer RWD.

xxstich666xx > PlayerWAN 11/05/2013 at 19:57

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AWD is more of a "wow how did I not wreck" kind of fun whereas RWD is more of a "why am I going sideways at 15mph?" kind of fun.....

PlayerWAN > deadpedal 11/06/2013 at 02:05

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Great advice, thanks! I definitely feel better knowing that, to fully enjoy it, I have to re-learn it. My takeaway is that eventually I'll be moderately proficient at all three means of traction. RWD, and to a lesser extent FWD have already been learned (although that is definitely far from mastered), so all that's up next is AWD. Wish me luck! haha